Ok Gang, I Finished the GY Scene, made 2 different versions:
The top right has a smaller red brick tomb and the bottom right has a bigger grey brick tomb and the sky is shaded, which one do ya like better?
Prince Alex
Laura Bow 1 Colonels Bequest EGA VGA Remake/Repaint
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XboxNation
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Alex, I like what you are doing, but these scenes you are creating have far too "fresh and new" a feel to them for what is supposed to be an old, somewhat dilapidated mansion and the surrounding grounds, buildings (mausoleums) etc. Even the cracks are beautifully drawn and well lit 
/owing to a sharp contrast to the background they are placed on.
In the house, carpeting is completely out of place in the bedroom, for instance, the tile adds to the eeriness of the room, and the moonlight filtering in touches it off. Note the shininess of the tile as well. Those gas lamps are secondary lighting in there, moonlight is the feature.
You are making beautiful scenes but the world you are attempting to recreate is far more dark and foreboding than the detail, texture and brightness your scenes permit.
Look at the 'DIJON' tomb for example -- it looks like the name is a neon sign. The original coloration was similar except in its case, it was set on a pilot-blue mausoleum backdrop which absorbed some of the intensity of the yellow lettering. With grey or particularly red brick, that needs to be toned down or altered in color entirely.
The sky in the bottom-right tomb scene is beautiful, I won't criticize that at all because the liberties you've taken with it make the result so perfect... but the general atmosphere of the game is such that you won't have or shouldn't include such brightly-lit gravefaces, for example, or outdoor scenes with fully-lit fore or backgrounds.
Outlines, shadows, and dimly lit foregrounds/backgrounds are the mainstay of the graphical world this game exists in, and that is owing largely to the creative decision of Roberta Williams in how she wanted the atmosphere and environment to appear, not owing the limitations of EGA (it never stopped her before.)
Overall I think you are doing a very good job though. Intense red walls in the first room, as well, would require spotlights of 2,000+ lumens to make appear that deep a red, even if the material was colored for it (the moonlight and lamps combined couldn't cause the red to reflect that deeply or brightly.) Moonlight, and blue-light in particular, bleeds red of reflectivity, it would appear washed-out, like it does in the original game. The gas lamps are not bright enough to produce more than a slightly visibly detectable color improvement on those walls.
There is a definite LucasArts lighting/intensity surrealism present here which is not necessarily present in Sierra games -- this is more cartoonish than it is purely graphical adventure (where the emphasis of the game was literary and contextual, and not so much graphical or ambience.)
I suggest that for examples of how to light and shade the swampy outdoor areas you take a peak at the KQII remake's swamp area and the texturing of the outside of the castle, graves, the Church graveyard, and so forth.
Keep up the good work, these are just observations I've made of what you have produced so far. If your creative decision is to make a brightly-lit, fresh and new-feeling atmosphere for the game, so be it. (The couch for instance is far too plush and the wooden frame of it is too obscured -- this is antique furniture made from real wood; the couch in the first room.)
Everyone loves a comfortable-looking room, in reality or a game-world, but the less comforting it is, the more it builds towards the distinctly-uncomfortable atmoshpere of the game. It brings reality to the situation, the player shouldn't feel at ease... its a creepy old mansion that has a cast devious guests staying there... and the outside is dark, cold, foggy, swampy, and scary. Neon signs on the mausoleums, when contrasted with such flowing VGA textures otherwise, simply clash too harshly to fit the part.
Anyway don't take any of this too hard. I'm a professional critic, the decision in how you want to present the game is obviously entirely up to you. Just consider what direction you want that to be.
Cartoonish <-> Realistic (Lighting, etc)
In character <-> New/Different character (Fresh furniture, etc)
PS: And if realistic, the black outlines on everything need to be blended or highlighted with the colors of the surrounding textures, not simply remain black lines as they are.
/owing to a sharp contrast to the background they are placed on.In the house, carpeting is completely out of place in the bedroom, for instance, the tile adds to the eeriness of the room, and the moonlight filtering in touches it off. Note the shininess of the tile as well. Those gas lamps are secondary lighting in there, moonlight is the feature.
You are making beautiful scenes but the world you are attempting to recreate is far more dark and foreboding than the detail, texture and brightness your scenes permit.
Look at the 'DIJON' tomb for example -- it looks like the name is a neon sign. The original coloration was similar except in its case, it was set on a pilot-blue mausoleum backdrop which absorbed some of the intensity of the yellow lettering. With grey or particularly red brick, that needs to be toned down or altered in color entirely.
The sky in the bottom-right tomb scene is beautiful, I won't criticize that at all because the liberties you've taken with it make the result so perfect... but the general atmosphere of the game is such that you won't have or shouldn't include such brightly-lit gravefaces, for example, or outdoor scenes with fully-lit fore or backgrounds.
Outlines, shadows, and dimly lit foregrounds/backgrounds are the mainstay of the graphical world this game exists in, and that is owing largely to the creative decision of Roberta Williams in how she wanted the atmosphere and environment to appear, not owing the limitations of EGA (it never stopped her before.)
Overall I think you are doing a very good job though. Intense red walls in the first room, as well, would require spotlights of 2,000+ lumens to make appear that deep a red, even if the material was colored for it (the moonlight and lamps combined couldn't cause the red to reflect that deeply or brightly.) Moonlight, and blue-light in particular, bleeds red of reflectivity, it would appear washed-out, like it does in the original game. The gas lamps are not bright enough to produce more than a slightly visibly detectable color improvement on those walls.
There is a definite LucasArts lighting/intensity surrealism present here which is not necessarily present in Sierra games -- this is more cartoonish than it is purely graphical adventure (where the emphasis of the game was literary and contextual, and not so much graphical or ambience.)
I suggest that for examples of how to light and shade the swampy outdoor areas you take a peak at the KQII remake's swamp area and the texturing of the outside of the castle, graves, the Church graveyard, and so forth.
Keep up the good work, these are just observations I've made of what you have produced so far. If your creative decision is to make a brightly-lit, fresh and new-feeling atmosphere for the game, so be it. (The couch for instance is far too plush and the wooden frame of it is too obscured -- this is antique furniture made from real wood; the couch in the first room.)
Everyone loves a comfortable-looking room, in reality or a game-world, but the less comforting it is, the more it builds towards the distinctly-uncomfortable atmoshpere of the game. It brings reality to the situation, the player shouldn't feel at ease... its a creepy old mansion that has a cast devious guests staying there... and the outside is dark, cold, foggy, swampy, and scary. Neon signs on the mausoleums, when contrasted with such flowing VGA textures otherwise, simply clash too harshly to fit the part.
Anyway don't take any of this too hard. I'm a professional critic, the decision in how you want to present the game is obviously entirely up to you. Just consider what direction you want that to be.
Cartoonish <-> Realistic (Lighting, etc)
In character <-> New/Different character (Fresh furniture, etc)
PS: And if realistic, the black outlines on everything need to be blended or highlighted with the colors of the surrounding textures, not simply remain black lines as they are.
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princealexander
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Do You Know the command to dump the stuff from Colonels Bequest?orieac wrote:
Yes. You also need SCI Resources Dumper. This is the command for the floppy version of Laura Bow 2:Then you can use ViewView.Code: Select all
SCIResDump /m3 /v1 /p1 /nRESOURCE.000 RESOURCE.MAP -1
They both come with TraduSCI 1.1.2. You can find it at http://www.gabrielknight2k.tk/.
Will you use Adventure Game Studio?
Thanx!
Prince Alex
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princealexander
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AsianMusicGuy
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If you're really open for comments...
The orignal was relatively vibrant. Bright, warm lights, colorful lamps, light-brown furniture, and so on. It was certainly one of the less creepy parts of the game. The remade one, however, is very dark, with very little contrast or saturation. You can't even tell there are light sources.
Also. the gradients just plain don't work. Gradients are nice when you want to give the illusion of a smooth slope, but that's not the case here. Your rug now looks like some sort of alien technology. The bathroom door also looks like curved plastic instead of wood. And I'm not sure what effect you're going for with the gradients in the doorways. The entire doorway would really be equally illuminated or unilluminated.
The orignal was relatively vibrant. Bright, warm lights, colorful lamps, light-brown furniture, and so on. It was certainly one of the less creepy parts of the game. The remade one, however, is very dark, with very little contrast or saturation. You can't even tell there are light sources.
Also. the gradients just plain don't work. Gradients are nice when you want to give the illusion of a smooth slope, but that's not the case here. Your rug now looks like some sort of alien technology. The bathroom door also looks like curved plastic instead of wood. And I'm not sure what effect you're going for with the gradients in the doorways. The entire doorway would really be equally illuminated or unilluminated.
Feedback
Alexander i think that the main problem with your backgrounds is that you only update the colours in the EGA/VGA transition process.
The real difference between the EGA and VGA backgrounds is that the EGA not only supported less colours but also allowed for less detail. EGA backgrounds are just simplistic compared to the VGA backgrounds created at a later stage. At that time, it didn't matter because people didn't expect the detail, and the EGA didn't allow for it anyway.
If you are converting the EGA backgrounds to VGA, it is extremely important not only to update the colours, but also adjust shapes and composition, if necessary. Only than you will be able to maintain the atmopshere of the original EGA version. However, this process requires more time and attention for every individual background and increases the scripting work as well.
Some artists like Lucasfan chose to avoid this extra work and managed to complete very likable remakes. Although this proves it is possible to avoid major changes in shapes and composition, the extra time and efforts required for such changes will certainly pay off.
The real difference between the EGA and VGA backgrounds is that the EGA not only supported less colours but also allowed for less detail. EGA backgrounds are just simplistic compared to the VGA backgrounds created at a later stage. At that time, it didn't matter because people didn't expect the detail, and the EGA didn't allow for it anyway.
If you are converting the EGA backgrounds to VGA, it is extremely important not only to update the colours, but also adjust shapes and composition, if necessary. Only than you will be able to maintain the atmopshere of the original EGA version. However, this process requires more time and attention for every individual background and increases the scripting work as well.
Some artists like Lucasfan chose to avoid this extra work and managed to complete very likable remakes. Although this proves it is possible to avoid major changes in shapes and composition, the extra time and efforts required for such changes will certainly pay off.
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princealexander
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okay, I'm going to wait for some more comments from others before I decide to make some changes to the last screen I did, but first just some updated general info on what i'm trying to do here.
Laura Bow 1 didn't support many colors, for fun and as a project, I'm trying to change some of the not so great checkerboard colored pixels and smooth them out some,without changing the shapes of the original graphics, and giving it some more color. (well not in my last screen heh) In the process, I'll learn how to use AGS to make a game. This little project can't be treated like a "VGA REDRAW REMAKE" like Sierra did with QFG or AGDI did with Kings Quest, because that is not what this is. If I spend all the time it takes to attempt the awsome screen remakes,I'll never get to learning the programming part of the game
It would be fun to have a old colorful cartoon lucas arts type Colonels Bequest
I've gotten some pretty decent feedback here and from other people on my first 3 screens. As a result, the following changes will be made when I want to go back over the screens I finished:
Lauras room:
Being changed back to a tile floor, and I'm considering maybe adding a rug for the middle of the room, like right in front of fire place
May need to tone the red wallpaper color down some, but the only problem is, if I do that things may start looking to dark in there, I'm wondering if maybe a pastel red or maybe even another color of some sort, or even a wall paper design like in the other rooms (again suggestions open) [probably a wallpapper design] (GRIN)
Moonlight through windows will be put back, may not be as a light blue solid color, it just might make whatever color it shines on a lighter color.
The original colors in laura's room were all mostly Blue and purple which I though made it look too plain, most liked the added/changed color.
Mansion Front door:
Yellow will be worked back in for the light sources
Garveyard:
Need to tone down the letters on both stone tombs.
Upstairs Hall:
Will make more colorful and brighter to kill some of the dullness.
Want more comments on rug, if original color format of blue and purple are being kept, I'll have to use a different method of shading or maybe just speckel 2 close shades of a color to avoid using plain solid colors.
Rug was supposed to appear to be "raised" some on the edges of the pattern to try A different typr of rug look.
All rooms:
Will start using other light colors than just white starting from the light source.
PrinceAlex
Laura Bow 1 didn't support many colors, for fun and as a project, I'm trying to change some of the not so great checkerboard colored pixels and smooth them out some,without changing the shapes of the original graphics, and giving it some more color. (well not in my last screen heh) In the process, I'll learn how to use AGS to make a game. This little project can't be treated like a "VGA REDRAW REMAKE" like Sierra did with QFG or AGDI did with Kings Quest, because that is not what this is. If I spend all the time it takes to attempt the awsome screen remakes,I'll never get to learning the programming part of the game
It would be fun to have a old colorful cartoon lucas arts type Colonels Bequest
I've gotten some pretty decent feedback here and from other people on my first 3 screens. As a result, the following changes will be made when I want to go back over the screens I finished:
Lauras room:
Being changed back to a tile floor, and I'm considering maybe adding a rug for the middle of the room, like right in front of fire place
May need to tone the red wallpaper color down some, but the only problem is, if I do that things may start looking to dark in there, I'm wondering if maybe a pastel red or maybe even another color of some sort, or even a wall paper design like in the other rooms (again suggestions open) [probably a wallpapper design] (GRIN)
Moonlight through windows will be put back, may not be as a light blue solid color, it just might make whatever color it shines on a lighter color.
The original colors in laura's room were all mostly Blue and purple which I though made it look too plain, most liked the added/changed color.
Mansion Front door:
Yellow will be worked back in for the light sources
Garveyard:
Need to tone down the letters on both stone tombs.
Upstairs Hall:
Will make more colorful and brighter to kill some of the dullness.
Want more comments on rug, if original color format of blue and purple are being kept, I'll have to use a different method of shading or maybe just speckel 2 close shades of a color to avoid using plain solid colors.
Rug was supposed to appear to be "raised" some on the edges of the pattern to try A different typr of rug look.
All rooms:
Will start using other light colors than just white starting from the light source.
PrinceAlex
Comment
Ok Alexander, i understand your position. If this project is mostly about testing your programming skills, you can ignore the earlier comments.
That said, i applaud you for your efforts to train both your art and programming skills. If you are able to manage the both of them, there is little that can stop you from creating a good game. Keep up the good work
That said, i applaud you for your efforts to train both your art and programming skills. If you are able to manage the both of them, there is little that can stop you from creating a good game. Keep up the good work
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deltamatrix
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...
I like your enthusiasm for this project and i wish the best of luck to you.
I'm glad you're still learning background art and you will only continue to learn as you progress. Right now, it seems all you have done on the art is drawn over the originals using deluxe paint. Thats ok coz I like deluxe paint but it doesn't feel consistent with the other Sierra VGA remakes.
You have added a good sense of darkness to the game but the old EGA cartoon feel is still there for me (only with added colours). To eliminate the cartoon feel, you'd need to remove the black outlines.
Ignore this post if you wish and develop the game anyway. Programming is more important. Final art can be done any time.
I'm glad you're still learning background art and you will only continue to learn as you progress. Right now, it seems all you have done on the art is drawn over the originals using deluxe paint. Thats ok coz I like deluxe paint but it doesn't feel consistent with the other Sierra VGA remakes.
You have added a good sense of darkness to the game but the old EGA cartoon feel is still there for me (only with added colours). To eliminate the cartoon feel, you'd need to remove the black outlines.
Ignore this post if you wish and develop the game anyway. Programming is more important. Final art can be done any time.
I love this thing where people say "blah blah blah and you can ignore me if you want but so there!"deltamatrix wrote:Ignore this post if you wish and develop the game anyway. Programming is more important. Final art can be done any time.
Generally, if you don't want people to ignore your post, you might read the rest of the thread before posting things that were just discussed and addressed:I know you probably did read that, but your post felt you were just saying exactly what was already said while pretending that it hadn't been said. Anyway. I'm not trying to start trouble. Reallyprincealexander wrote:... In the process, I'll learn how to use AGS to make a game. This little project can't be treated like a "VGA REDRAW REMAKE" like Sierra did with QFG or AGDI did with Kings Quest, because that is not what this is. If I spend all the time it takes to attempt the awsome screen remakes,I'll never get to learning the programming part of the game
princealexander, you're definitely taking a good position on game development - good on ya! I think you will have a lot of fun and learn a lot by not taking yourself too seriously and by knowing what you're capable of and knowing what your strengths are and adjusting your project expectations to meet your strengths while still trying to challenge yourself.
This is not really a comment but something I have been meaning to mention to you. In your pictures you are just redoing the end result of what is shown on the players screen. Which is ok but in certain cases some objects need to be treated as objects or special views.
Examples :
First Room :
1. Lauras suitcase never moves but it can be opened so the graphic needs to be able to be changed. Lillians suitcase in some chapters is actually placed on the floor next to the bed while lillian is lying on the bed.
2. The dumbwaiter or whatever that little door is on the left of the room. Laura needs to be able to open it so it would be easier to have a black background in there and have a door overlaying it.
3. The third one is more up to what you wish to do but you can either do an animated background or lamp objects to simulate the flickering effect that happens with the lamps. Using the Animated background requires a bit less coding I think.
Second Room(Graveyard) :
1. Honestly I don't remember much about the graveyard but as I recall the left tomb can be opened later in the game. So it would be best to have those probably as a seperate view.
Third Room(Hallway) :
Please note some spoilers are listed in this one below....
1. Once again the lamps and flickering depending on how you decide to do it.
2. The bathroom door should be a seperate view.
3. Both Armoires should be a seperate view that will be ready to fold out as is nessecary when trying to access a secret passage.
With all that said I have to agree with the others the most recent room seems really dull. With the premise of this game being focused on murder mystery and not knowing what is going to happen next I think it will be important to maintain the feel the orginal had and possibly adding in some neat lighting effects could actually help improve the feel of the game. As an example of lighting effects if you ever added the moonlight shining into the first room like they had in the original you can use region lighting to have your characters body light up a bit. Honestly this would probably be a bit unrealistic though as the light would only be hitting one side of your body so unless you wanted to design a really cool script to determine which side the light was coming from and use a specially shaded version based on the lightsource.
IE if the light was coming from your characters left side the left half would be lightened and the right half would be a bit darker or something along those lines.
Anyways I am far from perfect with this stuff just wanting to voice my opinion. You may have already known about the view thing. Its actually a bit of a pain if you rip the stuff from the original game because sierra did something kinda strange with Colonel's bequest. Just about everything is treated as an object and is placed in a view, even the things which do not move. IE if you look at a room its just a barren room, anything like the beds, chairs, sofa's and lamps are all added in after the fact. I actually spent a little time messing around with ways to do a remake of this game and saw how intricate it all is.
Examples :
First Room :
1. Lauras suitcase never moves but it can be opened so the graphic needs to be able to be changed. Lillians suitcase in some chapters is actually placed on the floor next to the bed while lillian is lying on the bed.
2. The dumbwaiter or whatever that little door is on the left of the room. Laura needs to be able to open it so it would be easier to have a black background in there and have a door overlaying it.
3. The third one is more up to what you wish to do but you can either do an animated background or lamp objects to simulate the flickering effect that happens with the lamps. Using the Animated background requires a bit less coding I think.
Second Room(Graveyard) :
1. Honestly I don't remember much about the graveyard but as I recall the left tomb can be opened later in the game. So it would be best to have those probably as a seperate view.
Third Room(Hallway) :
Please note some spoilers are listed in this one below....
1. Once again the lamps and flickering depending on how you decide to do it.
2. The bathroom door should be a seperate view.
3. Both Armoires should be a seperate view that will be ready to fold out as is nessecary when trying to access a secret passage.
With all that said I have to agree with the others the most recent room seems really dull. With the premise of this game being focused on murder mystery and not knowing what is going to happen next I think it will be important to maintain the feel the orginal had and possibly adding in some neat lighting effects could actually help improve the feel of the game. As an example of lighting effects if you ever added the moonlight shining into the first room like they had in the original you can use region lighting to have your characters body light up a bit. Honestly this would probably be a bit unrealistic though as the light would only be hitting one side of your body so unless you wanted to design a really cool script to determine which side the light was coming from and use a specially shaded version based on the lightsource.
IE if the light was coming from your characters left side the left half would be lightened and the right half would be a bit darker or something along those lines.
Anyways I am far from perfect with this stuff just wanting to voice my opinion. You may have already known about the view thing. Its actually a bit of a pain if you rip the stuff from the original game because sierra did something kinda strange with Colonel's bequest. Just about everything is treated as an object and is placed in a view, even the things which do not move. IE if you look at a room its just a barren room, anything like the beds, chairs, sofa's and lamps are all added in after the fact. I actually spent a little time messing around with ways to do a remake of this game and saw how intricate it all is.
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dungeonsofdorks
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Awesome work! Look forward to playing this!
Just wanted to say thanks for working on this game.
I look forward to playing it. I never played LB1, only the sequel.
I look forward to playing it. I never played LB1, only the sequel.