The original Quest for Glory II took about a year to release

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BigCows · #1 Post by **BigCows** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:04 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quest_for_Glory#The_games

Whereas our little pet project is about six years in the making

I suppose the teams involved might be six times larger, this project is going for improved graphics, and they've been working on other projects in the meantime. Still, I'm looking forward to the release of this one and have been for a while, even if I have to finish every last line of code myself.

Orion · #2 Post by **Orion** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:42 am

Six years... yes... but this isn't their main job either. It's a side project in their busy real life schedules.

BigCows · #3 Post by **BigCows** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:55 am

Very true

KQ2VGA took a year and a half or something to make, which was a pretty impressive project all on its own though, but also probably a little above the original development cycle, I'm just musing to myself about how fan-projects compare to the real thing in terms of delays and whatnot.

The Silver Lining Team was formed in 2002 for comparison, with a demo released last year-they also intend to publish the game in episodes for a simpler release schedule, but that's also close to five years and counting.

Blackthorne519 · #4 Post by **Blackthorne519** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:57 am

Yeah, money makes a real difference. ASSPANTS.

If people wanted these games faster, they'd send us large sums of money. Tax free donations, please.

Bt

Orion · #5 Post by **Orion** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:50 am

BigCows wrote:Very true KQ2VGA took a year and a half or something to make, which was a pretty impressive project all on its own though, but also probably a little above the original development cycle, I'm just musing to myself about how fan-projects compare to the real thing in terms of delays and whatnot.

The Silver Lining Team was formed in 2002 for comparison, with a demo released last year-they also intend to publish the game in episodes for a simpler release schedule, but that's also close to five years and counting.

KQ2VGA also isn't as complex as QFG2. KQ2VGA didn't have stats, or even different classes. QFG2 is essentially... 3 times the game of KQ2VGA.

BigCows · #6 Post by **BigCows** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:52 am

True, I know it's engine is simpler than TSL's in terms of graphics but it would have to be much more complicated in terms of gameplay.

Orion · #7 Post by **Orion** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:56 am

Look at the number of people working on TSL too. You can't judge one fangame by another. Hell, you want to complain about something, go to the Hero6 forums.. It's been what, 10 years for them? I heard they're reworking the plot yet again.

BigCows · #8 Post by **BigCows** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:21 am

Not trying to complain, just commenting on turnaround time for different fan-based projects like this. Some like hero6 may never see the light of day. AGD was one of the first to get started in this field but obviously they bit off a huge project for this one, it outstripped their initial plans.

Orion · #9 Post by **Orion** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:27 am

I'll gladly wait another 2 years if I need to for this project (Not saying I want to though) But the longer they work on it, the less buggy and better it's gonna be!

Alistair · #10 Post by **Alistair** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:23 am

Hell, you want to complain about something, go to the Hero6 forums.. It's been what, 10 years for them? I heard they're reworking the plot yet again.

From what I know, Hero6 essentially was canned by one team and picked up by another- so it's not like 6 years + 4 with the new team, more like, just 4, the previous 6 are msotly unrelated. But it's more complex than that, the team has changed a lot and with infeuding (as most of the QFG community has been plagued with, as I understand it), these things cause delays.

I understand AGDI hasn't had the same issues, which is pleasing.

On timelines- yes, it's overdue. But as was mentioned, unpaid labour, not their principle work. I have exactly the same issue with my website.

Plus, imagine all the testing that's required with statistics and whatnot. It must be insane.

- Alistair

#11 Post by **Erpy** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:23 pm

I think Hero6 was founded in 1999 which would make it about 8 years old right now. Yes, overdue, but on the other hand it's outlived most of its "child projects" that were spawned out of it. They have plenty of resources, so as long as they can keep their act together and keep the efficiency in their upper circle managable, they should come through in the end.

As for QFG2VGA, yeah it's also overdue. I know that the original only took about a year, but there's a couple of differences:

- They're paid. Big difference. Non-profit projects only have their motivation to rely on and motivation is an ever-changing thing. (and totally unpredictable and unreliable) There's times where you can go on for hours on end and squeeze every spare minute you have into the game (even if your day was very busy) and there's times where you have what's called writer's block...no matter how much time you have, you just can't stay focussed for longer than a few minutes. Sierra employees at least kept their free time during some portion of the project.

- This was our first adventure/RPG hybrid. I have no doubt the QFG2 team was able to transfer a fair bit of the stat system directly from QFG1 to QFG2. We had to build it up from the ground, since we're not working with the SCI engine.

- Alleyway system and combat system. Once you see those in QFG2VGA, you'll understand why they took longer to create.

- The programming team at Sierra was a whole lot larger and most of them had more experience too by that time.

That's a handful of reasons. I won't bore you with even more.

BigCows · #12 Post by **BigCows** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:33 pm

I find it interesting to compare the size and scope... did you have any statistics on KQ2VGA compared to QFG2VGA in terms of locations, number of interactions, etc? You guys have been notable for releasing complete bug-free software, but this also gives some estimate of the level of effort it would take other communities to pull off a project of this scale.

And hey, if there's anything I can do...

Paladinlover · #13 Post by **Paladinlover** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:21 pm

QFG 2 has a god awful amount of interaction between characters and dialogue. Even now, after more than 15 years of knowing the game and 10 years of owning the anthology, I still dig up occasional new dialogue. That's how big it is.

I remember several years ago I sent a beta SCI studio that could open up QFG 2 and let people see the views, backgrounds and text (though no modification was possible and you couldn't see the script). Erpy told me that it took a year off development time by his estimate. That makes me feel good.

Till next time stay cool :smokin

Fargus2 · #14 Post by **Fargus2** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:21 am

Erpy wrote:- Alleyway system

Are the alleys different in the remake?

BigCows · #15 Post by **BigCows** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:30 am

I think they've said before they want to make it less confusing and awkward, walking around the halleyways and having to stop to turn sideways and losing orientation was the most annoying part of that game, particularly in the intro before you had a map

Orion · #16 Post by **Orion** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:34 am

I never have problems with that... First thing I do is head out and kill something. You either get money or a salable item (Ghoul Claws or Scorpion Tail)

MacGyver · #17 Post by **MacGyver** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:36 am

Orion wrote:I never have problems with that... First thing I do is head out and kill something. You either get money or a salable item (Ghoul Claws or Scorpion Tail)

Smart move. This is something I never thought of after all these years. But again, will the money changer be bookmarked in your map if you do it this way?

Orion · #18 Post by **Orion** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:50 am

Nope, but it's easy to remember where Dinarzad is

Or you can always just go here

http://www.legendsofglory.com/glory/qg2/map.htm

#19 Post by **Anonymous Game Creator 2** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:04 am

Are the alleys different in the remake?

The layout is the same, but there are landmarks throughout the screens which makes navigation a lot easier (the skyline for example). The alleys no longer resemble a closed maze like the SCI game, they more closely resemble narrow streets with open sky above which was the original intention of the Coles.

It means that you don't have to rely solely on your compass or your memory to find locations of interest.

Fargus2 · #20 Post by **Fargus2** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:39 am

Anonymous Game Creator 2 wrote:
Are the alleys different in the remake?
The layout is the same, but there are landmarks throughout the screens which makes navigation a lot easier (the skyline for example). The alleys no longer resemble a closed maze like the SCI game, they more closely resemble narrow streets with open sky above which was the original intention of the Coles.

It means that you don't have to rely solely on your compass or your memory to find locations of interest.

Sounds good!

Paladinlover · #21 Post by **Paladinlover** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:42 pm

I never have problems with that... First thing I do is head out and kill something. You either get money or a salable item (Ghoul Claws or Scorpion Tail)

I used to do that, too. Though fighting a scorpion is hard when you're starting out, and even the brigands are tough at that point. The best bet would be lower the arcade difficulty to win easily... unless you like a challenge.

Till next time stay cool :smokin

Gronagor · #22 Post by **Gronagor** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:08 pm

Well... if you guys are happy with QfG2 taking 6 years, surely you can't have a problem with Hero6 taking 8 years which have an original plot, original art (in other words, planned from phase 1 with no real clue what the art should look like), original music (again, in other words, nothing to work from), etc etc.

PS: Hero6 had a 250 forest screen map when it started. Guess that was bad planning from us from the start. hehe.

Orion, how's PKatrina coming along. j/k. :p

But yeah. They are both overdue.

BigCows · #23 Post by **BigCows** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:39 pm

Still another way to look at it is that it's taken longer than the development cycles for the first four quest for glory games

I do love fan-based projects, and I love the idea of getting something for free from fellow fans who love the genre. And it's really changed gaming the way online communities can be involved, modding has become a big deal with games like Oblivion, Half-Life, and others, and we're at the point where the community can have as big of an influence on where the game goes as the developers. Fans have re-made texture packs for n64 era games, rom hacks for others, and explored every nook and cranny of leftover source code...

All that said, if communities like ours want to be successful with projects like this in the future it may take a lot more time, organization, and even money, a game of this scale is a lot to ask from two people.

Gronagor · #24 Post by **Gronagor** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:18 pm

I suspect the team is bit bigger than only 2 people, but you have a point.

As for the community, it's about time this community started getting involved...

Quite a few people have started their own projects (from being fans of these projects) like IA etc, but there's still quite a lot of people hanging around (for the last 6-8 years) who could have been part of a project.

On that note: there's a rumor that A Tale of Two Kingdoms have been released. Is that true?

Brainiac · #25 Post by **Brainiac** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:16 pm

It's not a rumor; it's true. Go play it...NOW!

The original Quest for Glory II took about a year to release

The original Quest for Glory II took about a year to release

ATOTK