AGDInteractive - Sierra Adventure Game Remakes Forum

that you could make Patches for QG1,3,4 with your fighting system?

No. A patch like that simply wouldn't be possible. In order to do it, the entire game would have to be remade (which isn't going to happen).

adeyke wrote:No. A patch like that simply wouldn't be possible. In order to do it, the entire game would have to be remade (which isn't going to happen).

I know but it would be AWESOME!!! playing QG3 now feels older then before

Only chance of that is if VU bends to popular demand and pays the AGDs to update the rest of the series.
Must say, I don't see that happening!

I often fantasized about what battles with other opponents in the series would be like if done QFG2VGA-style. I don't see it becoming reality any time soon. As mentioned before, patches aren't possible and complete remakes (either to fix bugs or switch battle systems) aren't feasable.

I think the closest they could reasonably get is adding fights with the other game's monsters to that Battle Debug menu thing...

It'd be cool, but still alot of work.

The most you can get is a Quest for Glory tactics. If you were truly desperate, you could make the combat system into a standalone executable, and hack a call to your exec whenever the original game would start the fight, passing to it all the info about the monsters, players health, etc. stored in the game.

In fact, I think the hacking would be the easy part, seeing how some AGS battles in this game range in the 10.000 lines of code.

But frankly, it isn't worth it, and it would be a severe copyright infringement anyways, so you wouldn't be able to distribute it.

DrJones wrote:But frankly, it isn't worth it, and it would be a severe copyright infringement anyways, so you wouldn't be able to distribute it.

You could probably distribute it just fine as a mod. As long as it requires the original game to use, it should be all kosher legally, as the user of the program is presumed to legally hold a license to the original game.

Goilveig wrote:You could probably distribute it just fine as a mod. As long as it requires the original game to use, it should be all kosher legally, as the user of the program is presumed to legally hold a license to the original game.

Modifying the source code is considered a breach of copyright everywhere. Being unable to modify your own software is what originated open source on the first place.

That modders and fan translators everywhere get away with it doesn't mean they cannot be shutdown anytime by the publisher.

EDIT: Even derivative works like a totally independent combat engine are likely forbidden, too.

DrJones wrote:Modifying the source code is considered a breach of copyright everywhere. Being unable to modify your own software is what originated open source on the first place.

It depends. There's also a strong precedent for reverse-engineering.

The rights granted by copyright:

* Produce, sell, or distribute the work
* Import or export the work
* Create derivative works
* Perform the work publically, or transmit the work
* Assign or sell these rights.

A mod to a game can't possibly be considered infringement on anything except creating a derivative work.

Now, if you packaged the game + your mod together and distributed it, it would certainly be infringement. However, if you distribute only the mod itself (which means the user must purchase a copy of the original game from the original publisher), it's all legal*

To make an analogy, say you're a book store owner and you think some books are full of smut. You want to sell censored copies of the book, so you cross out the offending words in marker and sell your "improved" books. That would be illegal. Now say instead, you distribute a pamphlet with instructions on which words to cross out, so that people who want to censor their own copies can do so. That is legal.

From a technical and legal point of view, a mod isn't a derived work; a mod creates a derived work when the user installs it, and such is legal as it's for personal use, just like you can tear pages out of your own books if you feel like it.

As long as you're not distributing the original game, in whole or in part (this does create a gray area if you modify or create a storyline using copyrighted characters), you can't be held to copyright infringement; you're not taking away from sales of the original, you're in fact boosting them by requiring all your users to purchase the original.

* Assuming your mod isn't doing anti-DMCA things like breaking copy protection.

That modders and fan translators everywhere get away with it doesn't mean they cannot be shutdown anytime by the publisher.

In general, the line there is if they are supplying the original work, or if they are merely enabling owners of the original work to create a derivative.

Oh and while you do that, can you remake QFG1, 3, 4, 5, SQ1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, make 7, KQ1 (For the Lulz), KQ2 (For the Lulz), KQ3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, LSL1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, PQ1, 2, 3, 4. I think that is all. Oh, and can we have them for tomorrow? Thanks in advance.

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Now playing: 06 - Creator Failure
via FoxyTunes

Yeah! And add MortalKombat style combat to all of them!!

(like having Larry in a 4-on-1 mud battle with those kinky girls in Larry4! Woohoo!!)

Goilveig wrote: * Produce, sell, or distribute the work

You can basically stop right there.
They have the *exclusive* right to sell it to you - or not.
They are allowed to decide.
In comes the invention of End User Licence Agreement.
If you don't agree, they won't sell it to you. If you agree, the licence forbids you from doing many things - like disassembling the software, (re)selling with different licenc, ...

To continue your analogy - you only sell books to people who sign a legally binding agreement that they *will* use your instructions for crossing out words (from the books they bought).

Let's all just throw Erpy a couple of bones to make a QUEST FOR GLORY COMBAT game, which is just fighting with all the enemies from all the games.

Come on, Erps!! You can do it!



Bt

xKiv wrote: You can basically stop right there.
They have the *exclusive* right to sell it to you - or not.
They are allowed to decide.
In comes the invention of End User Licence Agreement.
If you don't agree, they won't sell it to you. If you agree, the licence forbids you from doing many things - like disassembling the software, (re)selling with different licenc, ...

To continue your analogy - you only sell books to people who sign a legally binding agreement that they *will* use your instructions for crossing out words (from the books they bought).

Well, the old Sierra EULA was vastly simpler than the ones they have now. The original games were just released under a license of:

"You are entitled to use this product for your own use, but may not
copy, reproduce, translate, publicly perform, display, or reduce to
any electronic medium or machine- readable form, reproductions of the
software or manual to other parties in any way, nor sell, rent or lease
the product to others without prior written permission of Sierra. You
may use one copy of the product on a single computer. YOU MAY NOT
NETWORK THE PRODUCT OR OTHERWISE INSTALL IT OR USE IT ON MORE THAN ONE
COMPUTER AT THE SAME TIME."

It says nothing about modifying the software, of course so long as you don't distribute the original or a modified form of the original software in any way. As long as the modding group was distributing JUST the mod itself, the actual act of creating a derived work happens on the end-user's PC, and he's not violating the software license.

Back in those days, software licenses were much more liberal, more like what they have for books. When you buy a book, you don't own the content of the book (i.e. the story, the characters, etc.) but you DO own your physical copy, and so long as you don't try to reproduce it, you can modify your copy however you like. Most of the old license agreements were like that -- they don't care if you modify your copy of the software because they consider it to be YOUR copy.

Goilveig wrote: "You are entitled to ... but may not ...
reduce to any electronic medium or machine-readable form, reproductions of the
software ...

That means (among other things) no disassembling.
Which would make modding practically impossible. Like trying to answer math quiz without reading the questions (or answers ;-).