KQ9 shut down
Moderators: adeyke, VampD3, eriqchang, Angelus3K
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Gronagor
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Hmmm... as far as I know they've closed down quite a few abandonware sites. I've never heard of people being asked to remove manuals and stuff, although they've got just as much to worry about as the abandonware sites.Fender178 wrote:I have a quick question. How will Vivendi deal with websites that have walkthroughs that inlcude the copy protection stuff that is needed to complete the game since they re-released the collections? Or that doesnt matter as much to them as shutting down fan games?
I've put up a Save KQ9 page. Goto www.fanventures.com and simply press on the Save KQIX button. Show your support by putting some of the images in your signature or if you haven't already done so write a letter to Vivendi or sign the petition.
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Jenkins Loo
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I will send an email to VU. Before, I will post my letter here. I want you to tell me if the sentences are good or not, if I made a mistake or if wasn't clear about because of a bad sentence, too many words, repeating myself etc...
"Mr the "director" ( I don't by which service I should adress the letter )
The C&D letter you send to KQ9 Team was meant to impeach the the release of the fangame.
The KQ9 project is a homage and wish about what gamers would like to play. Fangames are what hard-gamers can't find on any computer anymore, they are made with passion according to requirements of demanding players.
A cooperation would benefit from both parties since fangames aren't meant to disrespect the copyright, hence the free downloads. Instead of shutting down KQ9, the KQ9 Team should continue releasing their game. Then, depending of the number of downloads, it will be a reliable hint to find out how many players would be ready to buy for the game, since KQ9 Team want a future in gaming.
Fangames fulfill entirely artistic expectations about what fans wish to have. By shutting down KQ9 site, gamers in a great expectations are deprived from their dreams about gaming experience.
A positive consideration over KQ9 would be constructive, as KQ9 Team and VU could reach out an agreement.
Yours sincerly ( or any polite sentence that I didn't found since I don't know what to write here, again, I'll need your help, I'm not sure on this one and English isn't my foreign language )
Jenkins Loo"
Don't worry about the petition, I'll write my true name. What do you think of my letter ?
"Mr the "director" ( I don't by which service I should adress the letter )
The C&D letter you send to KQ9 Team was meant to impeach the the release of the fangame.
The KQ9 project is a homage and wish about what gamers would like to play. Fangames are what hard-gamers can't find on any computer anymore, they are made with passion according to requirements of demanding players.
A cooperation would benefit from both parties since fangames aren't meant to disrespect the copyright, hence the free downloads. Instead of shutting down KQ9, the KQ9 Team should continue releasing their game. Then, depending of the number of downloads, it will be a reliable hint to find out how many players would be ready to buy for the game, since KQ9 Team want a future in gaming.
Fangames fulfill entirely artistic expectations about what fans wish to have. By shutting down KQ9 site, gamers in a great expectations are deprived from their dreams about gaming experience.
A positive consideration over KQ9 would be constructive, as KQ9 Team and VU could reach out an agreement.
Yours sincerly ( or any polite sentence that I didn't found since I don't know what to write here, again, I'll need your help, I'm not sure on this one and English isn't my foreign language )
Jenkins Loo"
Don't worry about the petition, I'll write my true name. What do you think of my letter ?
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koko992001
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- Location: Tennessee
I'm going to try to reword the letter. Do you mind?
To Whom It May Concern: (this is the general greeting when you don't know who will read the letter)
This letter concerns the C&D letter you send to KQIX Team which was meant to stop (or halt) the release of the fangame.
The KQIX project pays homage to the adventure games the fans grew up with and wish to continue to play. Fangames are for the hard-gamers who can not find these types of game anymore; games that are made with passion according to requirements of demanding players.
A cooperation would benefit both parties since fangames aren't meant to disrespect the copyright, hence the free downloads. Instead of shutting down KQIX, the team should be allowed to continue development and eventually release the game. Then, depending of the number of downloads, it will be a reliable figure to determine how many players would be willing to purchase the game, since KQIX team has expressed a desire to continue developing games.
Fangames fulfill artistic expectations about what fans wish to have. By shutting down the KQIX game, fans who had great expectations are deprived from their dreams about gaming experience.
A positive decision over KQIX would be constructive, as the team and VU should be able to reach an agreement.
Sincerely,
Jenkins Loo"
To Whom It May Concern: (this is the general greeting when you don't know who will read the letter)
This letter concerns the C&D letter you send to KQIX Team which was meant to stop (or halt) the release of the fangame.
The KQIX project pays homage to the adventure games the fans grew up with and wish to continue to play. Fangames are for the hard-gamers who can not find these types of game anymore; games that are made with passion according to requirements of demanding players.
A cooperation would benefit both parties since fangames aren't meant to disrespect the copyright, hence the free downloads. Instead of shutting down KQIX, the team should be allowed to continue development and eventually release the game. Then, depending of the number of downloads, it will be a reliable figure to determine how many players would be willing to purchase the game, since KQIX team has expressed a desire to continue developing games.
Fangames fulfill artistic expectations about what fans wish to have. By shutting down the KQIX game, fans who had great expectations are deprived from their dreams about gaming experience.
A positive decision over KQIX would be constructive, as the team and VU should be able to reach an agreement.
Sincerely,
Jenkins Loo"
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koko992001
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Sorry. Should have read the whole post. :p-
Jenkins Loo
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hakujinmusume
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I can't believe this stuff is still going on. When I wrote my novel I thought it was old news and, at best, there was hope for the adventure game coming up through fan channels. It seems like VU has a death wish against the genre and when it starts coming back out of the ground, they just try and bury it deeper. How many times can they rerelease the same pack of games which they never created themselves, over and over?
I understand why they are doing this. If they don't protect their 'property' in this case, then legally in the future, they can't stop other projects. (sort of the 'if I share with you, then I have to share with everyone' excuse.) It's par for the course business procedure. Of course, how much legal right here remains to be seen - the fact that the game would be free puts their argument on shaky ground. But their well funded army of lawyers allows them to shut up any fan project regardless of the letter of the law.
Copyright now last 125 years (i believe) from the date of invention for corporations (in the US, it varies a bit throughout the world). This is mostly thanks to Disney who lobbied (twice?) to have it extended from 50. Currently they are lobbying for 150. They don't want to lose dear old mickey! 125 years is rediculously long and should be repealed. I also think there should be a diminishing of length when the copyright is sold. Say, if you keep copyright, it lasts 75 years, but if you sell it it's 25-50 years or something. Anyway, this is a moot point becuase legally VU would still have ownership of the property.
What's really tasteless is VUs lack of vision here. With this massive, positive upswell of interest in the genre - and their own clear disinterest in reviving the games - all they can think of is to shut it all down, instead of trying to work out a distributor deal or other agreement. Look at the First Person Shooter realm: mods, fan expansions/levels, etc... have hardly hurt the games.
The issue here, actually, is a blend of copyright and Intellectual Property. I imagine VU has the copyright to the King's Quest name. But things like 'look and feel' (like the clothes Graham wears) fall under Intellectual Property and are a lot harder to defend. That's why, in a lot of cases, you can just change the names. Anyway, as I said elsewhere on this site, I don't think VU has much of a case here because the game is not being sold. There could be 'damage' arguments made because the game will get around to thousands, but that would involve a reinterpretation of the laws, I think, rather than something outlined in the law itself. I personally believe that the games are adding a lot of value to VU's properties. The thing is, if they aren't careful, all that 'value' that the adventure game community has created could be (and rightly so!) taken out of VUs hands (along with their ability to block 'derivatives') and given to the fans out there because VU failed to do anything about it...even thought they don't seem to have any intention of doing something with that 'value' anyway. Sort of 'I don't want it, but I'll be damned if anyone else has it!' Of course, I'm far from a lawyer, so all the above is just my uninformed impression.
Anyway, I agree that adventure gamers need to start making original games, not fan knockoffs. The advantage of the fan games was that they already have an excitement generated around them. People will come together to work on a new King's Quest but not, say, if I say 'hey, I got a great idea for an adventure game!'. The interest on the part of the developers and consumers is already there. What I think is going to happen now is that now that these groups have formed, and have generated enough of a following they can go out and do original games that will be followed, played and enjoyed. I hope to see that happen anyway.
Sorry for the long post, just my thoughts.
I understand why they are doing this. If they don't protect their 'property' in this case, then legally in the future, they can't stop other projects. (sort of the 'if I share with you, then I have to share with everyone' excuse.) It's par for the course business procedure. Of course, how much legal right here remains to be seen - the fact that the game would be free puts their argument on shaky ground. But their well funded army of lawyers allows them to shut up any fan project regardless of the letter of the law.
Copyright now last 125 years (i believe) from the date of invention for corporations (in the US, it varies a bit throughout the world). This is mostly thanks to Disney who lobbied (twice?) to have it extended from 50. Currently they are lobbying for 150. They don't want to lose dear old mickey! 125 years is rediculously long and should be repealed. I also think there should be a diminishing of length when the copyright is sold. Say, if you keep copyright, it lasts 75 years, but if you sell it it's 25-50 years or something. Anyway, this is a moot point becuase legally VU would still have ownership of the property.
What's really tasteless is VUs lack of vision here. With this massive, positive upswell of interest in the genre - and their own clear disinterest in reviving the games - all they can think of is to shut it all down, instead of trying to work out a distributor deal or other agreement. Look at the First Person Shooter realm: mods, fan expansions/levels, etc... have hardly hurt the games.
The issue here, actually, is a blend of copyright and Intellectual Property. I imagine VU has the copyright to the King's Quest name. But things like 'look and feel' (like the clothes Graham wears) fall under Intellectual Property and are a lot harder to defend. That's why, in a lot of cases, you can just change the names. Anyway, as I said elsewhere on this site, I don't think VU has much of a case here because the game is not being sold. There could be 'damage' arguments made because the game will get around to thousands, but that would involve a reinterpretation of the laws, I think, rather than something outlined in the law itself. I personally believe that the games are adding a lot of value to VU's properties. The thing is, if they aren't careful, all that 'value' that the adventure game community has created could be (and rightly so!) taken out of VUs hands (along with their ability to block 'derivatives') and given to the fans out there because VU failed to do anything about it...even thought they don't seem to have any intention of doing something with that 'value' anyway. Sort of 'I don't want it, but I'll be damned if anyone else has it!' Of course, I'm far from a lawyer, so all the above is just my uninformed impression.
Anyway, I agree that adventure gamers need to start making original games, not fan knockoffs. The advantage of the fan games was that they already have an excitement generated around them. People will come together to work on a new King's Quest but not, say, if I say 'hey, I got a great idea for an adventure game!'. The interest on the part of the developers and consumers is already there. What I think is going to happen now is that now that these groups have formed, and have generated enough of a following they can go out and do original games that will be followed, played and enjoyed. I hope to see that happen anyway.
Sorry for the long post, just my thoughts.
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hakujinmusume
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Ah, good link. Clears stuff up for me, anyway. I actually have studied copyright several times over the years, but myth and fact are so often presented I get confused between which is which.
Anyway, the fact that they wouldn't 'lose' copyright by taking it down makes me wonder even more why they shut this project down. The only answer I can see is that if it looked 'too good' it might damage the sellability of their properties...but if that's the case, I don't see why they don't arrange some deal with the designers?
Anyway, the fact that they wouldn't 'lose' copyright by taking it down makes me wonder even more why they shut this project down. The only answer I can see is that if it looked 'too good' it might damage the sellability of their properties...but if that's the case, I don't see why they don't arrange some deal with the designers?
Who says that the company doesn't employ people who have made graphic adventure games before? Who says they don't have people who can make graphic adventure games?Alias wrote:VU making a offical sequel? We want that? VU has 0% experiance with adventure games. All the Sierra guys got laid off, so theres no point in VU making a badly made KQ/QFG/SQ. But I guess even if its bad, we all want to see more. :cry
Gee, I feel a slightly unrelated rant coming on!
This is also part of the reason why people who are trying to revive the graphic adventure game should make compelling original titles instead of games based on already established franchises. It's simply safer to work with something that is entirely your own.
Moreover, I believe that remakes and unofficial sequels are just going to be for fans of the original. Reaching these people isn't the problem; it's drawing in new people that's going to be critical.
You have to create a graphic adventure game that will produce the same effect as the graphic adventure games of old. Part of the reason I became a late convert to the genre was that I loved the originality of content in the games. The writing, setting and plots all seemed far more original in graphic adventure games than in any other genre.
Recreating that feeling by remaking old games isn't ideal. These games may be outdated, not just in terms of technical prowness, but in terms of contemporaryness (not a word, but you get the point). The best thing to do is to produce something that carries the spirit of the old games, and not in the way that Psychonauts supposedly carries the spirit (great game, but it's not a graphic adventure game), but a game that is about the same things, just expressed in a way that will appeal to people today.
For this, I am trying to create a graphic adventure game I believe most people who try it will love, though I have my doubts about my ability to see it through to completion. However, AGDI has created two games, and is about to release their third. Forgetting their commercial project, if they really wish to create something that can go around the internet and perhaps cause a bit of grass-roots revival of the graphic adventure genre, they should focus on something original next.
End rant.
This is also part of the reason why people who are trying to revive the graphic adventure game should make compelling original titles instead of games based on already established franchises. It's simply safer to work with something that is entirely your own.
Moreover, I believe that remakes and unofficial sequels are just going to be for fans of the original. Reaching these people isn't the problem; it's drawing in new people that's going to be critical.
You have to create a graphic adventure game that will produce the same effect as the graphic adventure games of old. Part of the reason I became a late convert to the genre was that I loved the originality of content in the games. The writing, setting and plots all seemed far more original in graphic adventure games than in any other genre.
Recreating that feeling by remaking old games isn't ideal. These games may be outdated, not just in terms of technical prowness, but in terms of contemporaryness (not a word, but you get the point). The best thing to do is to produce something that carries the spirit of the old games, and not in the way that Psychonauts supposedly carries the spirit (great game, but it's not a graphic adventure game), but a game that is about the same things, just expressed in a way that will appeal to people today.
For this, I am trying to create a graphic adventure game I believe most people who try it will love, though I have my doubts about my ability to see it through to completion. However, AGDI has created two games, and is about to release their third. Forgetting their commercial project, if they really wish to create something that can go around the internet and perhaps cause a bit of grass-roots revival of the graphic adventure genre, they should focus on something original next.
End rant.
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Quest For Glory Fan
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I was drawn in. I hadn't played an adventure game in nearly a decade when I found this forum. Right after starting my posting here I bought the Quest For Glory Collection (as my old ones I remebered didn't work anymore) and I Started all over again. Since then I've bought and beat Broken Sword 1 and 2 and I look forward to commercial releases now. That's a bit more coin in the community because of AGDI and the fan base sits here and talks and entertains here while waiting for new releases. Most people are anticipating QFG2 more then commercial games coming out. I think I owe it to them to buy their commercial game when it comes out and if it's half the game it's trying to be I think I'll owe them a little more.
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Gronagor
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From the link Adeyke posted, it's very clear that VU had all the right to do what they did.
If you really want to cause a stir, you should go crazy as if VU/Sierra is creating a KQ9. Start a lot of 'rumors' and even small sites to back this up. Force them to create KQ9. :p Just act as if it's public knowledge that they are working on KQ9. Don't refer to an anouncement (falsely).
If you really want to cause a stir, you should go crazy as if VU/Sierra is creating a KQ9. Start a lot of 'rumors' and even small sites to back this up. Force them to create KQ9. :p Just act as if it's public knowledge that they are working on KQ9. Don't refer to an anouncement (falsely).