Kings Quest 9 gets a new facelift

[Alistair]

I agree (surprisingly!) with quite a lot of things that Avatar has said.

However, I don't agree with the overall sentiment. KQ8 was two steps backwards for the KQ series, and I firmly believe KQ9 (rather, TSL:Shadows/etc.) will be three more steps backwards. I've had enough inside info fed to me that I'm very sceptical re: the plot, and although Avatar is right when they say:

KQ9 or TSL or whatever you want to call it, despite all the drama, backstabbing, struggles, deceptions and name changes, is still the product of a huge conglomeration of fans of the series

But, I think two things on that note. I think being played for a fool IS a bad thing. I don't like my intelligence being insulted.

Additionally, I'd never heard of any of the people working on the project before they started on it. That says to me, that as well as me not visiting their corners of the broad Sierra community at large so often, that also they probably don't represent that much of the Sierra community population with their ideas and vision. As opposed to the AGDI's, for example. I see faces from the SQ, KQ, QFG, etc communities, the official and unofficial Sierra boards, etc. You basically see KQ fans in the TSL community. Which is fine in one sense, however the majority (99%) of those fans didnt't have input in the game. You've got 15 or so folks who "like KQ" (I wonder how many KQ games some of them have played) yet who are making evidently a vastly different game to most of the KQ games. Given that Cesar's already flagged the project as mainly a resume builder for his 'good' self (from his perspective, at least), that only adds to my scepticism with regards to how KQ-like the game will be. (Of course, all the PR is mainly what I dislike, not the actual game itself. I find that VERY offputting. Any Sierra fangame has thousands fans by default, unless it looks dreadful. There's no need for so much PR, unless that PR has a hidden agenda. Which I feel it did, but that's also another story.)

But yes. I'll wait until the game's release before I go any further, because it would be unfair to judge a perceived plot. There could be alterations, etc, and I respect that.

I would appreciate if Yonkey would reply to the Janitorial Times thread, though- his response was nothing much more than a defensive PR effort. Though, better Yonkey than the actual TSL PR lady ;P .

Finally, take what I've said with a grain of salt. I've mostly typed in freeform, that is, writing as thoughts come to mind. I'm not trying to judge or be hostile so much as I'm trying to get a feel for what's going on and express an opinion, so please don't be offended, especially about what I've posted on my forum, Yonkey- I don't mean offence to you or the team. I just would like to know the truth, and I also know full well there's as much likelihood of finding it as there is my dream of actually waking up in the KQ universe. Which does make me a tad cynical on the subject. You may have noticed. But, I also don't want people quoting me verbatim 5 months later and lynching me for my opinion today, because my opinion is bound to change. It's a lot mellower about KQ9 than it was 6 months ago, even (as hard as that might be to believe given this post!).

- Alistair

[Yonkey]

Although MusicallyInspired's posts weren't *nice*, with respect, Yonkey, I'd hardly call them 'highly offensive'. "great.. and stuff." is a nothing.

Yes, his posts in this thread weren't as bad as Blackthorne's but considering what he said in the past, I (and now all of you) have a clear indication of what "and stuff" was referring to.  But, it was more the cynical laughter that I found unsettling, to say the least.

Surely, as a game maker you're used to criticism. If that really bothered you, I'd hate to see how you'd react to something really vicious that someone said.

This was why I decided to link to JT.  That is how I would react, to people that don't know any better.  However, the aforementioned people in this thread were not criticizing (at least, not construcitvely), they were ridiculing.  BTW Blackthorne, in the future, if you're joking about our work, you should say so, or at least use a smiley! Sarcasm and sillyness is very difficult to see otherwise, especially when you post it in reference to someone else's work, at another's site, under the context of a thread whose mood was more negative than positive.

And, yes, I noticed your post on my forum. I also noticed you haven't replied to any of the controversial bits, though, I grant you make a lot of good points eloquently.

I didn't respond back then because I had no time (it was during finals), the conversation topic had shifted, and most of your points were already responded to in my other posts.  The rest you posted on that site were mostly speculation, and you said your viewpoint had shifted since so there was no point in browbeating you over them.  But, given what you said in this thread, obviously your viewpoint remains the same, which is why I will try one last time.

Then again, I suspect only Cesar and possibly a couple other highup folks know everything.

Like it or not, I am one of the "higher ups" and am fully aware of Josh's involvement in this project (including the e-mails where most of you base your information from), but I'd rather save my response towards that for Josh Mandel himself, assuming he decides to break his word to never publicly troll/bash our project again.  That ball remains in his court, for the time being.

However, I don't agree with the overall sentiment. KQ8 was two steps backwards for the KQ series, and I firmly believe KQ9 (rather, TSL:Shadows/etc.) will be three more steps backwards.

You can believe whatever you choose to believe, but until the game is out, your judgement is based on inaccurate and out-of-date information, which again, I clarified at the JT forums, but since you fail to believe me, you should instead wait for the game to be released before believing comments made by ex-team members whom have left the team 1-4 years ago over someone that was and is still very much involved with all aspects of this game (i.e. myself).  

As opposed to the AGDI's, for example. I see faces from the SQ, KQ, QFG, etc communities, the official and unofficial Sierra boards, etc. You basically see KQ fans in the TSL community. Which is fine in one sense, however the majority (99%) of those fans didnt't have input in the game. You've got 15 or so folks who "like KQ" (I wonder how many KQ games some of them have played) yet who are making evidently a vastly different game to most of the KQ games.

That's a large assumption on your part to believe that our fans have not and do not play non-KQ games.  The fact is they do, and our fans play many more games, including those by non-Sierra companies such as LucasArts, and even games outside of the adventure genre.  The majority are KQ fans, just as the majority of SQ7's fans are SQ fans, and the majority of Hero6's fans are QFG fans.  Our target audience is generated from product interest in TSL, it is not our concern whether they represent the genre or not, since other games are not our concern.

Furthermore, when I first joined the team back in 2003, I recall a poll on the website along the lines of "What kind of plot would you like in TSL?" this poll had been on the site for months if not longer, and actually generated a lot of discussion within the team, since it was most likely triggered by Josh's reaction.  The results of the poll showed an overwhelming majority (I believe it was around 75-80%) preferring a "darker, more mature plot" confirming the decision Cesar made, when taking over as Game Designer.  Before you guys claim our marketing/PR influenced this decision, it didn't.  This was back before I joined the team, when the website was a "cheerful" white & purple, and the only thing released that gave some insight into the true nature of the games were four WIP music themes (still available at http://www.tsl-game.com/media/music/ ).  Our reasons for updating the site design in 2004 were mostly to be able to expand features and use PHP rather than Perl, but another message that got across was that the design finally reflected the mood and depth of TSL.  Again, it was accepted by an overwhelming majority (I would say 90-95%).

Given that Cesar's already flagged the project as mainly a resume builder for his 'good' self (from his perspective, at least), that only adds to my scepticism with regards to how KQ-like the game will be. (Of course, all the PR is mainly what I dislike, not the actual game itself. I find that VERY offputting. Any Sierra fangame has thousands fans by default, unless it looks dreadful. There's no need for so much PR, unless that PR has a hidden agenda. Which I feel it did, but that's also another story.)

All of us use this game as a resume builder, myself included.  In fact, anyone that joins our team has the right to publish their work in an offline portfolio (or online portfolio, if approved by PR and Cesar).  That's the beauty of not choosing secretive marketing tactics that other fangroups have chosen.  Obviously, our game is more than a "Sierra fangame" and if you don't believe me, you can ask the tens of thousands of fans or press that cover non-Sierra and even non-adventure communities.  There is no "hidden agenda".  Promotion & marketing is based on attracting your product to as many people as possible.  You don't even need a PR or sales background to know this, anyone with a website uses this same mentality.  And, if you believe that anyone that has mass-appeal has a hidden agenda, I'd hate to hear your thoughts on McDonalds, Wal-Mart, or any large corporation for that matter.  However, I'm guessing that controversial topics such as politics are not permitted in this forum, so out of respect for AGDI, there's no point in discussing those views any further.

But, I also don't want people quoting me verbatim 5 months later and lynching me for my opinion today, because my opinion is bound to change. It's a lot mellower about KQ9 than it was 6 months ago, even (as hard as that might be to believe given this post!).

Actually, you were the one who brought up this topic, but obviously there was more to the story.  I have no intention of digging up buried topics, and as far as I was concerned, this "KQIX Scandal" had been asked and answered back in April.  Yes, I didn't respond to you personally back then, but my viewpoint then is the same viewpoint as now.  Conspiracy theories  and allegations are nothing more than that, without evidence to support your claims.  And considering you are not privy to the entire story (and by "story", you may interpret that as plot, game, or any factual information exchanged between Josh, Cesar, PR or Vivendi), you should not continue to influence people to believe your opinion.  As I said before, you may believe whatever you want to believe, but I suggest waiting until the game is released before condemning it on the basis of speculations and references taken out of context.

*takes deep breath*

In any case, I appreciate all of those who have been and continue to be supportive of our project.  I, like Spikey and Alliance, do not wish to continue this drama any further.  If you wish to continue this or any related discussion further Alistair, please do so in the appropriate manner by e-mailing me at: neil.rodrigues@postudios.com

Anyway, to get back on-topic, I appreciate those of you that enjoy our new site. We will be having a major event on July 30th at http://www.tsl-game.com/chat/ from 4-7PM EST (GMT +05:00) where we will be releasing a few excellent surprises (no, it's not the game or another release date ).  Those interested are completely welcome to come.


EDIT: spelling & grammar.

[Alistair]

I agree, we probably shouldn't continue this here.

Would like to say this, though: I was worried when I saw you were the last poster, Yonkey, but I have to give you a hell of a lot of credit- you've replied damn well. I may not agree with everything you say, but you've been eloquent and phrased everything beautifully. I take my hat off to you.

And, I guess I'll say this as well: I don't believe the topic of TSL's secret tactics is dead- it's just buried, and the legions of TSL fans couldn't care less. But that says (to me) more about your fan base than the actions on behalf of your project.

Regards,
- Alistair