Progress Update Thread (formerly known as quest for glory 2)
Moderators: adeyke, VampD3, eriqchang, Angelus3K
Just letting people know we've compiled version 2 of the game and let in the 2nd wave testers. Let's hope it isn't going to take 5 more versions until the game is ready for release.
We also managed to track down a really annoying bug today that's been pestering us for over 2 years and just couldn't be consistently replicated. (mostly because it had 1:205 chance of showing up every time you attacked an enemy in battle)
EDIT: Whoohoo. 8500 posts.
We also managed to track down a really annoying bug today that's been pestering us for over 2 years and just couldn't be consistently replicated. (mostly because it had 1:205 chance of showing up every time you attacked an enemy in battle)
EDIT: Whoohoo. 8500 posts.
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Erpy wrote:We also managed to track down a really annoying bug today that's been pestering us for over 2 years and just couldn't be consistently replicated. (mostly because it had 1:205 chance of showing up every time you attacked an enemy in battle)
Any chance you tell us what the bug did and what caused it? :D
We labelled it the "Too Close for Comfort"-bug and it occurred on seemingly random moments during battle, particularly while injuring an enemy. When it struck, the enemy would often end up 20 pixels to the left and 11 pixels down of where he SHOULD be while in melee range. (being either right in your face or the hero appearing partially on top of him) And if you or the enemy backed off so things looked good again, the game no longer considered you to be next to one another, so your swings and stabs wouldn't hit. This misplacement would last until combat ended.
The reason was ironically some stabilization code that was meant to insure the monster was not in "occupied mode" (i.e: busy performing an action) while going through its idle animation. If the code performed that check at the EXACT moment the idle animation was interrupted (usually because of you attacking and the enemy either falling over or defending) "occupied mode" was automatically disabled even though the enemy was going through an action, allowing the game script to perform another action while certain variables involved in the first action weren't reset yet. The chance of this happening was extremely low, like 1 in 200, but that also made it next to impossible to replicate. An alert beta tester sent us a quicksave taken right after that random point, but just before the actual bug triggered, allowing us to consistently replicate it and track down the cause of the problem.
The reason was ironically some stabilization code that was meant to insure the monster was not in "occupied mode" (i.e: busy performing an action) while going through its idle animation. If the code performed that check at the EXACT moment the idle animation was interrupted (usually because of you attacking and the enemy either falling over or defending) "occupied mode" was automatically disabled even though the enemy was going through an action, allowing the game script to perform another action while certain variables involved in the first action weren't reset yet. The chance of this happening was extremely low, like 1 in 200, but that also made it next to impossible to replicate. An alert beta tester sent us a quicksave taken right after that random point, but just before the actual bug triggered, allowing us to consistently replicate it and track down the cause of the problem.
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Nice!Erpy wrote:An alert beta tester sent us a quicksave taken right after that random point, but just before the actual bug triggered, allowing us to consistently replicate it and track down the cause of the problem.
About the quick saves: are they for beta testing purposes only or will they be part of the game?
Bugs is a big word. I personally prefer the word issue or "entry". (as in entry on a list) After all, if a GUI needs to be placed 2 pixels to the right in order to be perfectly centered on the screen, one wouldn't call that a bug, right?
As the amount of entries fixed in beta stage 1, I'd say about 700 or so.
As the amount of entries fixed in beta stage 1, I'd say about 700 or so.
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- The Prince of Shapeir
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Since the game's so complex, new bugs have a tendency to appear as side-effects of fixing other bugs. For example, in the latest beta, it's not possible to walk out of Aziza's alley with the mouse. You have to use the arrow keys (or warp out with the map) as a work-around.
This is the kind of example of a minor bug which has been accidentally introduced as a result of addressing another issue. It's not difficult to fix this bug, but when so many things affect other things in the code, new bugs always have a chance of popping up in place of old ones. This makes the numbers high.
I suspect that these kind of "side-effect" bugs will start to diminish the sooner we stop adding new code/suggestions to the game, and begin concentrating only on fixing what's there. A LOT was changed in between the first and second beta versions, (including a great deal of requests) so there's a good explanation for why there were so many new entries appearing on the list.
The beta can only really be considered ready for public release once a new wave of beta testers can play it through from start to finish without encountering the kinds of discrepancies mentioned above.
This is the kind of example of a minor bug which has been accidentally introduced as a result of addressing another issue. It's not difficult to fix this bug, but when so many things affect other things in the code, new bugs always have a chance of popping up in place of old ones. This makes the numbers high.
I suspect that these kind of "side-effect" bugs will start to diminish the sooner we stop adding new code/suggestions to the game, and begin concentrating only on fixing what's there. A LOT was changed in between the first and second beta versions, (including a great deal of requests) so there's a good explanation for why there were so many new entries appearing on the list.
The beta can only really be considered ready for public release once a new wave of beta testers can play it through from start to finish without encountering the kinds of discrepancies mentioned above.
Yeah, the "special alleyway screens" (like Aziza's alley and the WIT alley) didn't have the feature of the cursor turning into an arrow to mark an alleyway exit south when the mouse was moved to the bottom of the screen, so I added that feature to those screens and one of them backfired on me. My mistake for not checking all special alley screens...the other special alleyways didn't have the problem. It's circular bugfixing like this that adds to the workload.Since the game's so complex, new bugs have a tendency to appear as side-effects of fixing other bugs. For example, in the latest beta, it's not possible to walk out of Aziza's alley with the mouse. You have to use the arrow keys (or warp out with the map) as a work-around.
On that note, I spent a good deal of time today overhauling the bargaining system so merchants don't immediately reset their new price when you stop that particular bargaining session and click the money pouch on them again. I usually dislike tweaking "core"-stuff like that, but multiple people mentioned it already. The feeling that comes with tinkering of the inner game mechanics at this stage is somewhat similar to trying to defuse a live bomb...if you screw up, there's a BIG mess to clean up. Fortunately, I didn't get to see any unwanted results in my testing sessions.
I totally know what you mean. Checking this thread has become a ritual. It's so cool to have the inside scoop on the development. Big thanks to Erpy for keeping us all posted.Arseny wrote:Still, it's very impressive count. And it's very good to hear that progress is being made.
Actually, I think I will miss waiting for the game after the release. For the last 7 years it became a part of my life. :rollin
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There is nothing worse than bugs that creep into the code due to a bug fix. And the worst part is that the new bug usually has nothing what-so-ever to do with the fix you've made. It's usually a daisy-chain effect, one problem doing something to a second thing, which does something to a third thing which in turn creates your new bug.
That's my experience anyway. Bugger bug-fixing a game like QFG2.
That's my experience anyway. Bugger bug-fixing a game like QFG2.
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Evil Bugs
Actually, I can think of one thing worse and I think it happened testing KQ3. You insert something new and an OLD bug, fixed months ago, comes back as a result. That's got to be teeth-grinding.Klytos wrote:There is nothing worse than bugs that creep into the code due to a bug fix. And the worst part is that the new bug usually has nothing what-so-ever to do with the fix you've made. It's usually a daisy-chain effect, one problem doing something to a second thing, which does something to a third thing which in turn creates your new bug.
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I'm going to have to disagree with this person, then.Erpy wrote:The total to-do list got over 500 entries.
Some stuff is easy to fix like: "put a comma after this word and put a period outside the quotes".
Punctuation Rules: Quotation Marks
Rule 1: Periods and commas always go inside quotation marks, even inside single quotes.
It's not a rule that comes across naturally to anyone who has ever dabbled with programming or HTML, but it's technically correct.
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Not this again, for starters each language culture and nation has different rules.
No one grammar or punctuation is correct for I one do not see a point in continuing this debate lets face it its a age old debate that will never be settled Erpy is a highly respected and loved person of the great community that is AGDI and i feel bad for him as this debate was at his expense due to a grammar style so on behalf of everyone on this board I apologize to Erpy and I urge you all not to clutter up a "progress" thread with a debate that has nothing to do with the game.
No one grammar or punctuation is correct for I one do not see a point in continuing this debate lets face it its a age old debate that will never be settled Erpy is a highly respected and loved person of the great community that is AGDI and i feel bad for him as this debate was at his expense due to a grammar style so on behalf of everyone on this board I apologize to Erpy and I urge you all not to clutter up a "progress" thread with a debate that has nothing to do with the game.
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- The Prince of Shapeir
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Actually, it's already been decided that we're going to be remove all the English spelling and grammar, and replace it with Engrish instead.
All your base are belong to us!
All your base are belong to us!
Well, people shouldn't be using grammar because I say so or put together a list. They should be using it because it makes their messages easier and more pleasant to read. (besides, I'm hardly the best person to put together spelling/grammar rules; my native language isn't even English)
We currently have a volunteer going through the game text in order to guarantee consistency. We took most lines in the game directly from the EGA version and the original QFG2 was really inconsistent with stuff like capitalisation. It's a shame we're doing a job Sierra should have done nearly two decades ago, but ah well...better late than never.
We currently have a volunteer going through the game text in order to guarantee consistency. We took most lines in the game directly from the EGA version and the original QFG2 was really inconsistent with stuff like capitalisation. It's a shame we're doing a job Sierra should have done nearly two decades ago, but ah well...better late than never.