The Gamers Thread: PS3, PC, Wii, 360... pick your poison!!

[Quest For Glory Fan]

for me it's just MGS 4 and FFXIII, personally I can withstand boycotting FF for a bit considering they used to be producing solid RPGs every year or year and a half and they just went through a 6 year lull of crappy games (from X to XII). The pricing is a big thing as well, I got a Wii and 360 (with 3 free games) for the price of a PS3, I think I win that one.

[jpnuar1]

Brand loyalty pretty much single handedly sold the gamecube...

Let's see how well Sony does now that it's been out there 10 years, since it lacks acheivement points and true motion control, and even rumble, and has arguably equal graphics to the 360. Pretty much the only thing the PS3 has going for it (above and beyond its competitors) is Blu-ray (not a big deal to Sdandard definition tv owners like myself) and brand loyalty, which I'm sure it has a considerable amount of by now... (I love the concept of the Eye of Judgment, but I'm guessing most people don't think enough of it to count as a point of comparison)

[Vildern]

for me it's just MGS 4 and FFXIII, personally I can withstand boycotting FF for a bit considering they used to be producing solid RPGs every year or year and a half and they just went through a 6 year lull of crappy games (from X to XII). The pricing is a big thing as well, I got a Wii and 360 (with 3 free games) for the price of a PS3, I think I win that one.

I stand corrected

Brand loyalty pretty much single handedly sold the gamecube...

Let's see how well Sony does now that it's been out there 10 years, since it lacks acheivement points and true motion control, and even rumble, and has arguably equal graphics to the 360. Pretty much the only thing the PS3 has going for it (above and beyond its competitors) is Blu-ray (not a big deal to Sdandard definition tv owners like myself) and brand loyalty, which I'm sure it has a considerable amount of by now... (I love the concept of the Eye of Judgment, but I'm guessing most people don't think enough of it to count as a point of comparison)

The potential of the PS3 is far greater than that of the Xbox360, yet it will take time before developers could fulfill it. At least 8-16 months will have passed, before games will show significant superiority.

Mind you, the original controller for the PS1 didn't have a rumble pack as well.

The Blu-Ray is actually a shortcoming among critics, saying that it's expensive and will fail against the HD DVD format, and that eventually Sony will abandon it (just as it abandoned its Mini Disk, or whatever that format of theirs which failed once was called).

What Sony does have going for it is a name and most importantly - the firm support of third party developers.

About that "Brand loyalty pretty much single handedly sold the gamecube... " remark - well,  history proves a name alone cannot bring success (more of it in the last paragraph). The fact that gamecube had a library of good games would be a far more reasonable assumption as to why it sold well, as the sales of a console peak whenever a good game is released for it... and among the highly acclaimed games the gamecube had I can mention: Metroid Prime, Wind Waker, RE4, Metroid Prime 2, Paper Mario.

More on the "Brand loyalty (or in other words - name sells)" remark. Well, just take Sega for example, its history just proves it's not true. While Sega's Genesis/MegaDrive sold well in the 4th generation, and was the dominant console in Europe - if I remember correctly - sales of future consoles failed miserably, in spite of the fact that Sega and Nintendo were in those days the really hot names. Hence, a name won't redeem your console if it - the console - doesn't have: Firm support of third party developers, aggressive marketing, a name /reputation (yes, it's a factor, yet by itself it cannot make a console sell if you don't have the other factors), and proper hardware (not necessarily the cutting edge technology, yet hardware with which it'd be possible to easily develop games (take the Saturn for example, terrible design, which made developing times longer and that led developers to prefer developing for the PS). The gamecube had all of those factors, which led to an adequate success (came second with xbox after all).

[Quest For Glory Fan]

you totally misunderstood. I said they were good but everything inbetween them sucked.

[jpnuar1]

and among the highly acclaimed games the gamecube had I can mention: Metroid Prime, Wind Waker, RE4, Metroid Prime 2, Paper Mario.

Four of which are first party Nintendo titles, which I would lump in with brand loyalty. Yeah, GC did have some standout titles, but most of them were from the big N, and everyone knows GC had lousy 3rd party support. I beleive that the few exclusives it got were at least partially there out of "brand loyalty", as the console sure didn't have as much of a user base as its competitors.

As we enter the current generation of gaming, and as development costs continue to grow, any given system is likely to have less and less exclusives than it used to, which boils the argument down to which version of a game will offer the best entertainment value.

Also keep in mind that Sony first gained the lead with cheaper development and publishing costs than its competitor, and that after that 3rd paries just made games for the system with the largest user base. But this time around, Sony doesn't have the cheaper software or hardware, nor does it have the full year head start that it had with the PS2, and is rapidly losing ground to Nintendo, not to mention having to catch up to Microsoft's 10 million console lead, (which is doable, especially considering that Japan barely touches the Xbox) , which is likely to make companies think twice before making exclusive games for it

[Quest For Glory Fan]

PS3 is overpriced. end of story.

[Klytos]

The PS3 is retailing in Australia for $999. And they've removed some arcitecture from it to save money, most importantly for me, the backwards compatibility. So fuck them.

[Quest For Glory Fan]

I was talking to my friend at EB and she said they have a really hard time selling them.

[Vildern]

and among the highly acclaimed games the gamecube had I can mention: Metroid Prime, Wind Waker, RE4, Metroid Prime 2, Paper Mario.

Four of which are first party Nintendo titles, which I would lump in with brand loyalty.

Nintendo had titles that didn't sell that well, and those above sold well only because they were good games, it has nothing to do with brand loyalty. Had it been brand loyalty, then all of Nintendo titles would have sold that well. It had firm third party support – not necessarily as wide as Sony's, it doesn't have to be - by saying so I mean it had enough support to have a variety of good games. That the exclusive ones were from first party producers – in the grand majority of the time it's the case. With Sega, for example, it was always the case (whether it's Panzer Dragoon or Shenmue or Sonic, etc...) You can check in www.vgcharts.org and in www.gamerankings.com and in www.gamespot.com and in www.wikipedia.com check there for gamecube games and you'll find out that it had good selling games that were not of first party producers.

Yeah, GC did have some standout titles, but most of them were from the big N, and everyone knows GC had lousy 3rd party support. I beleive that the few exclusives it got were at least partially there out of "brand loyalty", as the console sure didn't have as much of a user base as its competitors.

User base meaning consumers? The xbox sold roughly the same.

nor does it have the full year head start that it had with the PS2, and is rapidly losing ground to Nintendo, not to mention having to catch up to Microsoft's 10 million console lead, (which is doable, especially considering that Japan barely touches the Xbox) , which is likely to make companies think twice before making exclusive games for it

That paragraph is redundant in my opinion, as those figures mean almost nothing. Wii and PS3 were released roughly at the same time; xbox 360 that got a year head start and managed to capture only a small portion of the market (9.36 sold units IS a small portion of the market). So? If Sony loses this time, which is quite possible, it won't be because xbox 360 has a year head start or because the Wii is currently selling well. Mind you, even the PS didn't have a head start.

But this time around, Sony doesn't have the cheaper software or hardware

That's reasonable.

Look, you're shooting at all directions. What's your point - that Sony sells less now? The figures are self evident. My point was that brand loyalty by itself cannot sell a product, and that there are other reasons for it, which I stated.

Had it been the case – that brand loyalty means adequate sales - than you would expect that those tens of millions of previous PS consumers would rush to buy a PS3, but that doesn't happen, now does it? Brand loyalty is only one factor among many and by itself cannot sell a product. For example, when Sony will lose this war, and I figure you mean they will which is quite possible, it would be in spite of brand loyalty, would it not?

The PS3 is retailing in Australia for $999. And they've removed some arcitecture from it to save money, most importantly for me, the backwards compatibility. So fuck them.

Yep. With that sum it's far better buying a computer or a second hand car.

[Boogeyman]

And don't forget that the Wii has PERFECT backwards compatibilty for GameCube games!(Unless you count the Game Boy Player, as there's no way to connect the hardware to the Wii.)

[Angelus3K]

I'm sure if the 360/PS3 were simply a souped up Xbox/PS2 then it would too.

[Klytos]

The XBox 360 released for half the price, $499.95rrp. There's the first problem.

But the biggest problem is the backwards compatibility is available in Japanese / US models but was removed from the Australian and European machines to save money.

Sony basically have blown it for me. The PS2 is the console I use, I own 40 odd games, I'm reluctant to upgrade if they won't work.

[Angelus3K]

Klytos, all thats changed is the US/JAP models had the combined EE+GS (Emotion Engine CPU & Graphic Syntheziser GPU) chip which is used in the Slim PS2.

The PAL PS3 has software emulation for EE but does contain the GS.

Any game which is not compatible off the bat will need minor updates from Sony to get them working.

I would bet all the latest PS2 releases would work and certainly 99% of PS1 games.

Anything else can be fixed by a software update.

[Klytos]

"This (the removal of the emotion engine) has an impact on the number of PS2 titles that will be backwards compatible [...] Rather than concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility, in the future, company resources will be increasingly focused on developing new games and entertainment features exclusively for PS3, truly taking advantage of this exciting technology."

I know that Angelus, my point is that the system costs $1000 for me. I buy most of my games new, so over the last couple of years I've spent quite a few thousand dollars on games that may or may not work on the new system. Until Sony comes out and says which games will work, or reinserts the EE back into the system, I think the whole things a rort.

[Sinister]

Funny thing about XBOX360 , PS3 and Wii. PS2 is still outselling all of them.. that tells you 3 things.

1- people arent prepared to buy expensive consoles, 2 - people wont buy consoles with "new" ground breaking techonology, 3 - people are now buying cheaper more "outdated" systems with tons of games.

Like someone said before; "PS3 came out!!! I can finally get myself a PS2"

[Angelus3K]

True, Klytos.

I can't see them ever putting the EE back in, they're selling PS3 at a loss to themselves so they did the EE in software to reduce some of the loss.

Although it is a needed feature I'm not buying a PS3 for PS2 games as I'll still have my PS2 right next to my PS3 (mainly because you can't play PS2 games off the HDD yet on PS3.)

[Vildern]

Although it is a needed feature I'm not buying a PS3 for PS2 games as I'll still have my PS2 right next to my PS3 (mainly because you can't play PS2 games off the HDD yet on PS3.)

You mean you gonna have both a Wii and a PS3 (meaning you'll also have both Wii and PS3 games)? You must be swimming in the dough  :p

[Angelus3K]

Yea lol

In total I'll have PS2, PS3 and Wii under my TV and PSP and DS Lite in my pocket.

[Vildern]

<-- is envious and drooling  :p

I recommend you get for your DS FF remakes, like FF3 Remake, if you didn't already. They are ought to be really really good.

[Angelus3K]

I've recently finished FFI and FFII (PS1 Remakes) on my PSP and am about 5 hours into the DS FFIII remake.

I'm playing through all the FF games.

Here's my progress so far:

Final Fantasy Playthrough Started December 27th 2006


Final Fantasy I (FF Origins PSX)

Started 28/12/06

Finished 15/01/07

Time: 16:55

Final Fantasy II (FF Origins PSX)

Started 15/01/07

Finished 12/02/07

Time: 20:55

Final Fantasy III (Nintendo DS Remake)

Started 13/02/07

[Vildern]

Noice! I'm planning to play the remakes of FF1 and FF2 after I've finished FF6 (as there version for FF4, FF5 and FF6 for the snes, and the remakes of FF1 and FF2 are for a later console... the PS).

Currently I've finished FF4 and am half way through FF5. Both are very good games I think.

[Quest For Glory Fan]

I'm doing almost the same for GTA just not in order.

Vice City 100%

San Andreas 31%

starting III after and then maybe LCS depending on if I can get IV by then.

although interesting set up you have Angelus, mine is similar but allow me to explain my room set up. to the left of my computer is a 19 inch tv with my PS2 and 360 hooked in. the PS2 has close to 40 games and the 360 ( that I got last boxing day) has I think 8 along with Xbox games. To the RIGHT of my moniter however is this TV that's been with me since I played my first FF in 94 and it has my NES, SNES, N64 and Dreamcast plugged in for when I feel retro. I also have two PS1s by the door that hold my coffee. downstairs is where I keep my GC and wii but I should probably move my GC up here. I also have my DS and the Gameboys leading up to it on the mid floor of the house by my "watching" tv.

Yes, I am spoiled.

As for the Final Fantasy plow through we've all attempted.

1: 3/4 fiends
2: was always hard at the start for me, never got into it.
3: haven't had time to get through the DS one yet as my bro is playing it,
4: played again and again but my save always gets corrupted or something. almost finsihed several times.
5: just got into Galuf's world thing/
6: beaten like a small child *insert kefka laugh*
7: after many many attempts I beat this one.
8: blows. got almost to disk 3 before I called it quits.
9: almost beat but my memory card broke, would like to try again
10: beaten, almost all ultimate weapons
X2: Is not a final fantasy
11: will not pay to play a game inferior to WoW.
12: only about 8 hours in, lost interest somewhere

although now that I've created a checklist it'd be neat if I were to go through the ones I never beat and update this, would any of you be interested in a thread like that? updating lists and just post "edited" to show you've made a change. perhaps I'll do that

[Brainiac]

X2: Is not a final fantasy

<buzzer sound>  You couldn't be more wrong.  I would be the first to bash the game for being an excessively fanservice piece of gaming, but the integrated ATB and in-battle Job-switching system is arguably the best evolution of the series mainstays ever.  The game deserve respect for its mechanics, if not for much else.

As to remakes, PSP's getting it's own remakes of FF1 and FF2 (anyone else think S-E's whoring those two out more than FF7?) as a 20th anniversary release.  The (separately released) games will incorporate the additions from both the PSX and GBA versions.  No US release has been mentioned so far.

And concerning the FF6 GBA remake (arguably the system's swan song), not all of the textual changes are for the worse...view and LOL.

As to PS3 FFs, I'm curious as to which of the Fabula Nova Crystallis games will sell better, FF13 or FFV13...

[Quest For Glory Fan]

still blows as a game (x-2 that is)

[Angelus3K]

Good point Brainiac, although not much is known about FFVSXIII.