What are the maximum points for abilities (+please enforce)?

[bugmenot]

If it follows the logic of QFG1, then it should be 200. If it follows the logic of QFG3, then it's 200 except strength which should be able to reach 300 (in QFG3, strength can get to 400 and the rest only to 300). So which is it?

The reason I ask is because every other game tells you that in advance by not letting you set in advance more than the maximum allowed points, even if you use a game cheater that gives you unlimited available points. I hope you'll consider adding a limit enforcer if you release a new version. I know that on the one hand it supports cheaters (by not letting them crash the game), but on the other hand it also limits them.

[ulmont]

If it follows the logic of QFG1, then it should be 200. If it follows the logic of QFG3, then it's 200 except strength which should be able to reach 300 (in QFG3, strength can get to 400 and the rest only to 300).

Are you sure about that for QFG3 / 400 strength?

[CDA_91]

Any class can raise any stat/skill to a maximum of 200 through normal methods.

Using the stat-enhancing genie wished stats can be raised as high as 250. (This can even unlock special finale-only combat moves).

[Erpy]

Those master techniques are unlocked whether your raised skill goes past 200 or not...the djinni raising a certain skill is enough. This ironically makes it possible to obtain the quadruple slash before the triple slash, although your fighter has to be VERY wimpy for that.

In each game the maximum for all stats was a multiple of 100. It was 100 in QFG1, 200 in QFG2...and 500 in QFG5. The exceptions were that in QFG2 there were two stats that could be raised up to 250 by artificial means (the djinni) and in QFG5 each class had two "specialized" stats that they could raise up to 550. QFG5 also had some accesoires that allowed you to raise a stat by equipping them.

In QFG2, the maximum is already 200. If you cheat to get them higher and you do anything that would raise said stat under normal circumstances, it should be set back to 200, so the results of stat cheats are usually temporary. For the raised stats, it's the value they were set to when they were raised that's the maximum. And in QFG3, strength (like all stats) only goes up to 300.

[Brainiac]

If you're talking legal in-game stat caps, all Stats, Skills, and Spells can reach 200. In addition, any two of the Stats or Skills (save Honor) can be increased 50 points by the djinni as high as 250.

If you're talking what is importable into the next game, regardless of whether or not you you a hacking tool, any experience level can be 255 (FF in hexadecimal notation) and still import properly into QfG3.

[bugmenot]

In QFG2, the maximum is already 200

You contradict yourself. Even if you don't believe Brainiac, it's obvious QFG3 accepts at least up to 250 in everything (because it can't tell which is cheating and which is Djinni).

And in QFG3, strength (like all stats) only goes up to 300.

I have savegames to prove otherwise (400, but only in strength).

[Erpy]

I stated there were exceptions, so I didn't really contradict myself.

As for the maximum stats, I'm pretty sure the maximum any stat can go up to is 300 in QFG3. If you have a savegame with one stat at 400, something probably got jumbled up. It's not supposed to happen.

[Goilveig]

You contradict yourself. Even if you don't believe Brainiac, it's obvious QFG3 accepts at least up to 250 in everything (because it can't tell which is cheating and which is Djinni).

The game DOES track which wishes you used with the Djinni -- if you're a fighter, and you up strength, even if it's just from 150 -> 200, you get a move that you don't get if you reach 200 normally. Likewise with other stats; the bonus moves are independent of your actual skill level, and are granted by the act of wishing itself.

So it would not at all be difficult to imagine that the Djinni is coded something like:

* Increase current stat by 50
* Increase max stat by 50

That would actually be interesting to test. Take a character with < 200 in some stat, say, 170, and use the Djinni to raise it to 220. Now try to grind the stat manually -- will it let you grind to 250 or will it cap at 220.

I have savegames to prove otherwise (400, but only in strength).

That doesn't happen on a fully patched english version, I have never gone above 300 strength even on a fighter/paladin. Maybe older versions had that issue.

[Erpy]

I can save you the trouble by telling you outright that wishing a stat of 170 up to 220 will not let you grind it to 250. (it's not like you'd have the time or much opportunity anyhow) Either 200 is the maximum, or the new value.

[bugmenot]

The game DOES track which wishes you used with the Djinni

I don't think you understood what I wrote. I meant that if you get 250 points for 2 random abilities legally, but 250 points for other abilities via cheating, then QFG3 wouldn't know which of them were the 2 legal ones and which were the cheats. Therefore it would have to treat all of them like the 2 legal ones.

[Erpy]

Oh that? Well, QFG2VGA's ending kinda performs a check. Just before exporting, it sets all stats to legal values again, so even if you cheat, you still only export your hero with 2 stats at 250 at most.

[Moosse]

If it follows the logic of QFG1, then it should be 200. If it follows the logic of QFG3, then it's 200 except strength which should be able to reach 300 (in QFG3, strength can get to 400 and the rest only to 300). So which is it?

I get Strenght 400 when I import my Wages of War or my Shadows of Darkness savegame into QfG 4. But I don't think it's possible to build the strength of your hero to 400 in Wages of War.

[bugmenot]

I get Strenght 400 when I import my Wages of War or my Shadows of Darkness savegame into QfG 4. But I don't think it's possible to build the strength of your hero to 400 in Wages of War.

Maybe you're right, but there's no way to check it without re-playing QFG3.

you still only export your hero with 2 stats at 250 at most

How does it decide which 2 stats to choose? Randomly? By the order you see in the stats' screen? But my main point was about the starting points in the startup screen. I meant you should follow the other games in the series in avoiding bugs by ensuring no one starts the game with points beyond of the limit of the end of game.

[Goilveig]

The game DOES track which wishes you used with the Djinni

I don't think you understood what I wrote. I meant that if you get 250 points for 2 random abilities legally, but 250 points for other abilities via cheating, then QFG3 wouldn't know which of them were the 2 legal ones and which were the cheats. Therefore it would have to treat all of them like the 2 legal ones.

It can, and in fact it does, record which stats you wished for. I just tested in fact, with every stat at 250 @ ad avis, as soon as the ceremony ended and it showed the final stats, only those 2 stats I wished for were at 250, all others were reduced to 200.

It's not like adding a few bits of flags for which wishes you made is tricky programming.

[Luna]

If it follows the logic of QFG1, then it should be 200. If it follows the logic of QFG3, then it's 200 except strength which should be able to reach 300 (in QFG3, strength can get to 400 and the rest only to 300). So which is it?

I get Strenght 400 when I import my Wages of War or my Shadows of Darkness savegame into QfG 4. But I don't think it's possible to build the strength of your hero to 400 in Wages of War.

The Cap in 1 is 100
The Cap in 2 is 200 (2 skills get 250 via the Djinn)
The Cap in 3 is 300
The Cap in 4 is 400
The Cap in 5 is 500 (class skills 550)

The 'absolute' most you should have at the beginning of 2 is 100 in the various stats.
The 'absolute' most you should have at the beginning of 3 is 200 in the various stats (the potential for 250 in two stats)
The 'absolute' most you should have at the beginning of 4 is 300 in the various stats
The 'absolute' most you should have at the beginning of 5 is 400 in the various stats

All of the above includes magic spell training levels I believe.

Any case in which you get more than that at the beginning of a game is some sort of mess up... I have to say, it seems most likely it's the result of doing something you shouldn't have.

[Moosse]

Any case in which you get more than that at the beginning of a game is some sort of mess up... I have to say, it seems most likely it's the result of doing something you shouldn't have.

Nah, I wouldn't know how to hack anything. Of course I've used suck blue frog and razzle dazzle root beer when I replayed the games, never on the first try though and those are the exports I made and use.

But I like to import my QfG4-exports again in the same game. All my stats are back to 300 (except for Strength of course), and for some reason I have the paladin healing power no matter what class I'm in (saves me a lot of healing potions). So, I guess it's kind of using loopholes in the game, but I wouldn't call it cheating.

[Brainiac]

But I like to import my QfG4-exports again in the same game. All my stats are back to 300 (except for Strength of course), and for some reason I have the paladin healing power no matter what class I'm in (saves me a lot of healing potions). So, I guess it's kind of using loopholes in the game, but I wouldn't call it cheating.

That Strength effect might be what bugmenot is thinking of for 400 Strength in QfG3. As to Healing Hands, that thing's appearance is very glitchy. I've had it show up on imported Paladins with less than the required Honor to know it in QfG4 (due to the difference in earning styles between 3 and 4, I'd guess).

[ulmont]

I get Strenght 400 when I import my Wages of War or my Shadows of Darkness savegame into QfG 4. But I don't think it's possible to build the strength of your hero to 400 in Wages of War.

Maybe you're right, but there's no way to check it without re-playing QFG3.

I did; he's right; you can't build strength to 400 in Wages of War.

[bugmenot]

The game DOES track which wishes you used with the Djinni

I don't think you understood what I wrote. I meant that if you get 250 points for 2 random abilities legally, but 250 points for other abilities via cheating, then QFG3 wouldn't know which of them were the 2 legal ones and which were the cheats. Therefore it would have to treat all of them like the 2 legal ones.

It can, and in fact it does, record which stats you wished for. I just tested in fact, with every stat at 250 @ ad avis, as soon as the ceremony ended and it showed the final stats, only those 2 stats I wished for were at 250, all others were reduced to 200.

It's not like adding a few bits of flags for which wishes you made is tricky programming.

But here's the interesting bit (no pun intended) - those flags may exist mid-game but not in the SAV file!
If you edit the SAV file externally, then:

1. The external editors I tried don't show any Djinn flags.
2. QFG3 has no problem importing 255 (not even 250!) points in all skills:
   

[Brainiac]

Yep, like I said a dozen years ago, QfG3 was the last game where import values were expected to be a single byte; as such, the logical limit was 255 - FF in hexadecimal, 11111111 in binary.

Technically, you can bypass/override the in-game restrictions with value editors that can freeze values as well, but frankly, if we're talking about editing files, we're way beyond intended game functions now, even with debug mode being a thing. I will admit though, I'm curious if some of the many unlisted GlobalInts could be used to have all of the djinni combat abilities activated at once without being stuck in the cave.